Ciganska je tuga pregolema - Revision history

Ziwi: "Romani", "Rom", "Romnji" and "Roma" are formal and "gypsy" should only be used informally or when translating the word "cigan"/"cigo" etc. Also sneaky grammar edit

2025-02-11T22:03:13Z

"Romani", "Rom", "Romnji" and "Roma" are formal and "gypsy" should only be used informally or when translating the word "cigan"/"cigo" etc. Also sneaky grammar edit

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:03, 11 February 2025
Line 11:		Line 11:

	==Music and lyrics==		==Music and lyrics==
	While its author remains unknown a vague timeline of events can be made from the song. The second verse is a direct reference to Operation Retribution in April of 1941. These supposed original lyrics mention of the deportation to the Marinkova Bara ghetto happened as early as October.<ref>Biljana Ristic. "[https://www.sbs.com.au/language/serbian/en/podcast-episode/on-this-day-nazi-bombing-of-belgrade/a8yyf3vbw On This Day: Nazi bombing of Belgrade]". SBS Serbian. 6 April 2019. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref> "In the morning around four/They knocked on every Gypsy's door" happened on the 29th, though there were mass arrests of ~~Gypsies~~ prior to the 29th. The arrival and subsequent liquidation of ~~Gypsies~~ in the Banjica camp happened as early as September.<ref name=":0">Milovan Pisari (2014). ''[https://www.cpi.rs/media/publications/The-Suffering-of-the-Roma-in-Serbia-during-the-Holocaust-e-book.pdf The Suffering of the Roma in Serbia During the Holocaust]''. Centar za primenjenu istoriju. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref> The mention of a "hot machine" refers to the crematoriums and was likely phrased as such for lyrical flow. The last stanza of the fifth verse indicates some sort of liberation of the camp, though Banjica wasn't liberated until 4 October 1944.<ref name=":1">Nemanja Mitrović. "[https://www.bbc.com/serbian/lat/srbija-58780131 Drugi svetski rat, zločini i Banjički logor: Nacistička kuća smrti za političke neprijatelje]". ''BBC''. 4 October 2021. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref> This is contrary to the line "The Gypsies were also called to fight" as ~~Gypsies~~ had been accepted into Partisan units as early as 1941.<ref>Danijel Vojak (December 2020). "Roma Resistance in Serbia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro and Macedonia during World War II". ''Re-thinking Roma Resistance Throughout History: Recounting Stories of Strength and Bravery. European Roma Institute for Arts and Culture''. ISBN 978-3-9822573-0-3 p. 51</ref> The last verse is indicative of the song being made post-war, though these verses could have also just been made to boost morale.		While its author remains unknown a vague timeline of events can be made from the song. The second verse is a direct reference to Operation Retribution in April of 1941. These supposed original lyrics mention of the deportation to the Marinkova Bara ghetto happened as early as October.<ref>Biljana Ristic. "[https://www.sbs.com.au/language/serbian/en/podcast-episode/on-this-day-nazi-bombing-of-belgrade/a8yyf3vbw On This Day: Nazi bombing of Belgrade]". SBS Serbian. 6 April 2019. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref> "In the morning around four/They knocked on every Gypsy's door" happened on the 29th, though there were mass arrests of Roma prior to the 29th. The arrival and subsequent liquidation of the Roma in the Banjica camp happened as early as September.<ref name=":0">Milovan Pisari (2014). ''[https://www.cpi.rs/media/publications/The-Suffering-of-the-Roma-in-Serbia-during-the-Holocaust-e-book.pdf The Suffering of the Roma in Serbia During the Holocaust]''. Centar za primenjenu istoriju. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref> The mention of a "hot machine" refers to the crematoriums and was likely phrased as such for lyrical flow. The last stanza of the fifth verse indicates some sort of liberation of the camp, though Banjica wasn't liberated until 4 October 1944.<ref name=":1">Nemanja Mitrović. "[https://www.bbc.com/serbian/lat/srbija-58780131 Drugi svetski rat, zločini i Banjički logor: Nacistička kuća smrti za političke neprijatelje]". ''BBC''. 4 October 2021. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref> This is contrary to the line "The Gypsies were also called to fight" as Roma had been accepted into Partisan units as early as 1941.<ref>Danijel Vojak (December 2020). "Roma Resistance in Serbia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro and Macedonia during World War II". ''Re-thinking Roma Resistance Throughout History: Recounting Stories of Strength and Bravery. European Roma Institute for Arts and Culture''. ISBN 978-3-9822573-0-3 p. 51</ref> The last verse is indicative of the song being made post-war, though these verses could have also just been made to boost morale.

	==Lyrics ==		==Lyrics ==
Line 104:		Line 104:

	====1969 version (''Biće skoro propast sveta'')====		====1969 version (''Biće skoro propast sveta'')====
	While the 1968 film has nothing to do with World War 2, it contains an abridged version arranged by Vojislav Kostić and the film's director Aleksandar Petrović. Although brief this version is unique compared to the original as it mentions both Jews and ~~Gypsies~~ being targeted. The holocaust theming is toned down greatly, however. While the melody remains the same, its style is more akin to Romani music.		While the 1968 film has nothing to do with World War 2, it contains an abridged version arranged by Vojislav Kostić and the film's director Aleksandar Petrović. Although brief this version is unique compared to the original as it mentions both Jews and Roma being targeted. The holocaust theming is toned down greatly, however. While the melody remains the same, its style is more akin to Romani music.

	==Lyrics==		==Lyrics==
Line 135:		Line 135:
	Alas, all of Čubura will remain empty		Alas, all of Čubura will remain empty

	Together came ~~Gypsy's~~ and Jews		Together came Gypsies and Jews
	To think about how to defend themsleves		To think about how to defend themsleves

Line 160:		Line 160:
	==''Dobro jutro, moj Srbine''==		==''Dobro jutro, moj Srbine''==
	====1992 version (''Dobro jutro, moj Srbine'')====		====1992 version (''Dobro jutro, moj Srbine'')====
	This version serves as the last track of the album and shares similarities in composition with the version heard in ''Biće skoro propast sveta''. Both versions were coincidentally published by the same company. While not an exact copy of the original version, it retains its holocaust theming. Any references to Nazi occupation is replaced with Ustaša. For example, "One morning, around four,/They [Nazis] knocked on every Gypsy's door" is changed to "One morning, at seven o' clock/The Ustashe knocked on the door". The lines that follow, "Wake up Gypsy, you don't belong here/Come to the camp where the mallet beats" is a reference to ~~Gypsies~~ being sent to labor camps.<ref>Ivana Nikolic. "[https://balkaninsight.com/2018/12/17/serbia-s-forgotten-role-in-the-roma-holocaust-12-14-2018/ Serbia’s Forgotten Role in the Roma Holocaust]". ''BalkanInsight''. 17 December 2018. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref> Instead of Jews and ~~Gypsies~~ being targeted as heard in the 1969 version, it is replaced with Serbian and ~~Gypsy~~ children crying as men were usually the target of these programs.<ref name=":0" /><ref name=":1" /> Any mention of Partisans are omitted and instead has a bleak ending, with the Ustashe refusing to give bread to them.		This version serves as the last track of the album and shares similarities in composition with the version heard in ''Biće skoro propast sveta''. Both versions were coincidentally published by the same company. While not an exact copy of the original version, it retains its holocaust theming. Any references to Nazi occupation is replaced with Ustaša. For example, "One morning, around four,/They [Nazis] knocked on every Gypsy's door" is changed to "One morning, at seven o' clock/The Ustashe knocked on the door". The lines that follow, "Wake up Gypsy, you don't belong here/Come to the camp where the mallet beats" is a reference to the Roma being sent to labor camps.<ref>Ivana Nikolic. "[https://balkaninsight.com/2018/12/17/serbia-s-forgotten-role-in-the-roma-holocaust-12-14-2018/ Serbia’s Forgotten Role in the Roma Holocaust]". ''BalkanInsight''. 17 December 2018. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref> Instead of Jews and Roma being targeted as heard in the 1969 version, it is replaced with Serbian and Romani children crying as men were usually the target of these programs.<ref name=":0" /><ref name=":1" /> Any mention of Partisans are omitted and instead has a bleak ending, with the Ustashe refusing to give bread to them.

	It is one of few albums made during the Yugoslav wars to reference the genocide of ~~Gypsies~~.		It is one of few albums made during the Yugoslav wars to reference the genocide of the Roma.

	==Lyrics==		==Lyrics==

BalkanMapper: english lyrics for the movie version

2024-11-19T15:47:21Z

english lyrics for the movie version

@@ Line 129: / Line 129: @@
 ===Lyrics (English): ===
 <poem lang="en">
-[TBA]
+A Gypsy's grief is too great
 </poem>
 |}

Randomatribute20k: Had a double take. Made some tweaks of the EN translations of these songs, though if I localized it too much, feel free to tweak it. Historical sources added. Interesting how there isn't really much on this subject.

2024-04-30T07:23:01Z

Had a double take. Made some tweaks of the EN translations of these songs, though if I localized it too much, feel free to tweak it. Historical sources added. Interesting how there isn't really much on this subject.

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 }}
-"'''Ciganska je tuga pregolema'''" (Serbian Cyrillic: "Циганска је туга преголема", <small>lit.</small> "A Gypsy's Grief is too Great") is a folk song of unknown origin. Its earliest `documented appearance on an album was for the soundtrack to the 1968 film ''Biće skoro propast sveta''. It would also appear in the 1972 reissue of the Italian album ''Il Canzoniere Internazionale Dei Ribelli''. An adapted version would appear in Veselin Grujić's debut album, [[Dobro jutro, moj Srbine|''Dobro jutro, moj Srbine'']].
+"'''Ciganska je tuga pregolema'''" (Serbian Cyrillic: "Циганска је туга преголема", <small>lit.</small> "A Gypsy's Grief is too Great") is a folk song of unknown origin. Its earliest documented appearance on recorded media was for the soundtrack to the 1968 film ''Biće skoro propast sveta''. It would also appear in the 1972 reissue of the Italian album ''Il Canzoniere Internazionale Dei Ribelli''. An adapted version would appear in Veselin Grujić's debut album, [[Dobro jutro, moj Srbine|''Dobro jutro, moj Srbine'']].
 ==Music and lyrics==
-While its author remains unknown, the origins of the song allegedly went as far back as the early 1940's as the second verse is a direct reference to Operation Retribution.<ref>Biljana Ristic. "[https://www.sbs.com.au/language/serbian/en/podcast-episode/on-this-day-nazi-bombing-of-belgrade/a8yyf3vbw On This Day: Nazi bombing of Belgrade]". SBS Serbian. 6 April 2019. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref> The song's subject matter is the genocide of Gypsies in Nazi-occupied Yugoslavia in World War 2. The supposed original lyrics mention of the deportation to the Marinkova Bara ghetto and the liquidation of Gypsies in the Banjica forest. At the end of the song, the Partisans come in and save the day, with calls to join them in their fight.
+While its author remains unknown a vague timeline of events can be made from the song. The second verse is a direct reference to Operation Retribution in April of 1941. These supposed original lyrics mention of the deportation to the Marinkova Bara ghetto happened as early as October.<ref>Biljana Ristic. "[https://www.sbs.com.au/language/serbian/en/podcast-episode/on-this-day-nazi-bombing-of-belgrade/a8yyf3vbw On This Day: Nazi bombing of Belgrade]". SBS Serbian. 6 April 2019. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref>  "In the morning around four/They knocked on every Gypsy's door" happened on the 29th, though there were mass arrests of Gypsies prior to the 29th. The arrival and subsequent liquidation of Gypsies in the Banjica camp happened as early as September.<ref name=":0">Milovan Pisari (2014). ''[https://www.cpi.rs/media/publications/The-Suffering-of-the-Roma-in-Serbia-during-the-Holocaust-e-book.pdf The Suffering of the Roma in Serbia During the Holocaust]''. Centar za primenjenu istoriju. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref> The mention of a "hot machine" refers to the crematoriums and was likely phrased as such for lyrical flow. The last stanza of the fifth verse indicates some sort of liberation of the camp, though Banjica wasn't liberated until 4 October 1944.<ref name=":1">Nemanja Mitrović. "[https://www.bbc.com/serbian/lat/srbija-58780131 Drugi svetski rat, zločini i Banjički logor: Nacistička kuća smrti za političke neprijatelje]". ''BBC''. 4 October 2021. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref> This is contrary to the line "The Gypsies were also called to fight" as Gypsies had been accepted into Partisan units as early as 1941.<ref>Danijel Vojak (December 2020). "Roma Resistance in Serbia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro and Macedonia during World War II". ''Re-thinking Roma Resistance Throughout History: Recounting Stories of Strength and Bravery. European Roma Institute for Arts and Culture''. ISBN 978-3-9822573-0-3 p. 51</ref> The last verse is indicative of the song being made post-war, though these verses could have also just been made to boost morale.
-==Lyrics==
+==Lyrics ==
 {| class="toptextcells" cellpadding="10" width="100%"
 |-
@@ Line 53: / Line 53: @@
 </poem>
 | style="margin-left:2em" |
-===Lyrics (English):===
+=== Lyrics (English):===
 <poem lang="en">
-[TBA]
+A Gypsy's grief is too great
 </poem>
 |}
@@ Line 96: / Line 127: @@
 </poem>
 | style="margin-left:2em" |
-===Lyrics (English):===
+===Lyrics (English): ===
 <poem lang="en">
 [TBA]
@@ Line 117: / Line 148: @@
 ==''Dobro jutro, moj Srbine''==
 ====1992 version (''Dobro jutro, moj Srbine'')====
-This version serves as the last track of the album and shares similarities in composition with the version heard in ''Biće skoro propast sveta''. Both versions were coincidentally published by the same company. While not an exact copy of the original version, it retains its holocaust theming. Any references to Nazi occupation is replaced with Ustaša. For example, "On April 7th/Hitler sent many planes" is changed to "One morning, at seven o' clock/Ustaša knocked on the door". Instead of Jews and Gypsies being targeted as heard in the 1969 version, it is replaced with Serbian children and Gypsies being targeted in Zagreb.
+This version serves as the last track of the album and shares similarities in composition with the version heard in ''Biće skoro propast sveta''. Both versions were coincidentally published by the same company. While not an exact copy of the original version, it retains its holocaust theming. Any references to Nazi occupation is replaced with Ustaša. For example, "One morning, around four,/They [Nazis] knocked on every Gypsy's door" is changed to "One morning, at seven o' clock/The Ustashe knocked on the door". The lines that follow, "Wake up Gypsy, you don't belong here/Come to the camp where the mallet beats" is a reference to Gypsies being sent to labor camps.<ref>Ivana Nikolic. "[https://balkaninsight.com/2018/12/17/serbia-s-forgotten-role-in-the-roma-holocaust-12-14-2018/ Serbia’s Forgotten Role in the Roma Holocaust]". ''BalkanInsight''. 17 December 2018. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref> Instead of Jews and Gypsies being targeted as heard in the 1969 version, it is replaced with Serbian and Gypsy children crying as men were usually the target of these programs.<ref name=":0" /><ref name=":1" /> Any mention of Partisans are omitted and instead has a bleak ending, with the Ustashe refusing to give bread to them.
 ==Lyrics==
@@ Line 155: / Line 188: @@
 ===Lyrics (English):===
 <poem lang="en">
-[TBA]
+A Gypsy's grief is too great
 </poem>
 |}
 [[Category:Songs]]

Randomatribute20k: TIL there's not just one version of this song, but three altogether. One of the renditions is lost media for the moment, but there are plenty of copies out there. Maybe I will buy a copy at some point. I've put the genre as "Contemporary" for now as Novokomp was a term for the post war yugo folk stuff iirc. Romani for the film version, and Novokomp for the 1992 version.

2024-04-30T02:21:52Z

TIL there's not just one version of this song, but three altogether. One of the renditions is lost media for the moment, but there are plenty of copies out there. Maybe I will buy a copy at some point. I've put the genre as "Contemporary" for now as Novokomp was a term for the post war yugo folk stuff iirc. Romani for the film version, and Novokomp for the 1992 version.

New page

{{Infobox song
| name = Ciganska je tuga pregolema
| type = song
| artist = Narodna
| English_title = A Gypsy's Grief is too Great
| released = 1940's
| genre = Contemporary
}}

"'''Ciganska je tuga pregolema'''" (Serbian Cyrillic: "Циганска је туга преголема", <small>lit.</small> "A Gypsy's Grief is too Great") is a folk song of unknown origin. Its earliest `documented appearance on an album was for the soundtrack to the 1968 film ''Biće skoro propast sveta''. It would also appear in the 1972 reissue of the Italian album ''Il Canzoniere Internazionale Dei Ribelli''. An adapted version would appear in Veselin Grujić's debut album, [[Dobro jutro, moj Srbine|''Dobro jutro, moj Srbine'']].

==Music and lyrics==
While its author remains unknown, the origins of the song allegedly went as far back as the early 1940's as the second verse is a direct reference to Operation Retribution.<ref>Biljana Ristic. "[https://www.sbs.com.au/language/serbian/en/podcast-episode/on-this-day-nazi-bombing-of-belgrade/a8yyf3vbw On This Day: Nazi bombing of Belgrade]". SBS Serbian. 6 April 2019. Retrieved 29 April 2024.</ref> The song's subject matter is the genocide of Gypsies in Nazi-occupied Yugoslavia in World War 2. The supposed original lyrics mention of the deportation to the Marinkova Bara ghetto and the liquidation of Gypsies in the Banjica forest. At the end of the song, the Partisans come in and save the day, with calls to join them in their fight.

==Lyrics==
{| class="toptextcells" cellpadding="10" width="100%"
|-
|
===Lyrics:===
<poem>
Ciganska je tuga pregolema
Niko nezna šta se njima sprema
Ili logor ili šuma gusta,
Ostaće nam cigana mala pusta.

U aprilu a sedmoga dana
Pošlo Hitler mnogo aeroplana
Da razruši Beograd na Savi
Jer tog dana i rat nam objavi.

A u jutro oko 4 sata
Svakom cigi lupaju na vrata
Sve ih redom jadne potovari
Otera ih Marinkovoj Bari.

A iz Bari na Banjicu u stu
Ostaviše cigonji pustu
Streljaše ih sve po desetinu
A svu malu deću u vruću mašinu.

Ko je hteo glavu da izvuče
Mora ga je karabin da stuče
Sve se tako potiše cigani
Dok stigoše mladi partizani.

Kad stigoše mladi partizani
I cigane u borbu su zvali
Da u borbi zajedno ratuju
Da slobodu kao braća skuju.

Tad je bilo a sada se peva
Ostaće nam u sećanju za cela vremena.
</poem>
| style="margin-left:2em" |
===Lyrics (English):===
<poem lang="en">
[TBA]
</poem>
|}

{{Infobox song
| name = Ciganska je tuga pregolema
| type = song
| artist = Narodna
| album = Ciganski pesme iz filma „Biće skoro propast sveta“
| English_title = A Gypsy's Grief is too Great
| genre = Romani
| length = {{Duration|m=3|s=23}}
| label = [[PGP RTS|PGP RTB]]
}}

==''Ciganski pesme iz filma „Biće skoro propast sveta“''==

====1969 version (''Biće skoro propast sveta'')====
While the 1968 film has nothing to do with World War 2, it contains an abridged version arranged by Vojislav Kostić and the film's director Aleksandar Petrović. Although brief this version is unique compared to the original as it mentions both Jews and Gypsies being targeted. The holocaust theming is toned down greatly, however. While the melody remains the same, its style is more akin to Romani music.

==Lyrics==
{| class="toptextcells" cellpadding="10" width="100%"
|-
|
===Lyrics:===
<poem>
Ciganska je tuga pregolema
Ciganska je tuga pregolema
Aj, niko ne zna što se Cigi sprema
Ili logor ili šuma gusta
Aj, ostade im sva Čubura pusta

Sastali se Cigani i Jevreji,
Aj, pa divane kako da se brane

Ustaj Cigo iz kreveta svoga
Aj, ustaj Cigo iz kreveta svoga
Aj, ustaj, Cigo, tri ti boga tvoga
Jooj!
</poem>
| style="margin-left:2em" |
===Lyrics (English):===
<poem lang="en">
[TBA]
</poem>
|}

{{Infobox song
| name = Циганска је туга преголема
| type = song
| artist = [[Veselin Grujić - Vesa|Веселин Грујић Веса]]
| album = [[Dobro jutro, moj Srbine|Добро јутро, мој Србине]]
| English_title = A Gypsy's Grief is too Great
| released = {{Start date|1992}}
| genre = [[Novokompovana narodna muzika|Novokompovana]]
| length = {{Duration|m=4|s=55}}
| label = [[PGP RTS|PGP RTB]]
| producer = [[Branko Markinović - Lalić|Бранко Маринковић-Лалић]]
}}

==''Dobro jutro, moj Srbine''==
====1992 version (''Dobro jutro, moj Srbine'')====
This version serves as the last track of the album and shares similarities in composition with the version heard in ''Biće skoro propast sveta''. Both versions were coincidentally published by the same company. While not an exact copy of the original version, it retains its holocaust theming. Any references to Nazi occupation is replaced with Ustaša. For example, "On April 7th/Hitler sent many planes" is changed to "One morning, at seven o' clock/Ustaša knocked on the door". Instead of Jews and Gypsies being targeted as heard in the 1969 version, it is replaced with Serbian children and Gypsies being targeted in Zagreb.

==Lyrics==
{| class="toptextcells" cellpadding="10" width="100%"
|-
|
===Lyrics:===
<poem>
Ciganska je tuga pregolema
Aj, niko ne zna šta se cigi sprema
Da li logor ili šuma gusta
Aj, ostaće nam sva Čubura pusta

Jedno jutro oko sedam sati
Aj zakucaše ustaše na vrati
Ustaj cigo tu ti mesto nije
Aj već u logor gde se maljem bije

Aj čekaj malo da upalim sveću
Aj da izljubim svoju sitnu decu
Čekaj malo da upalim lampu
Aj da izljubim i oca i majku

Kad ujutro kamioni jure
Aj i odoše pravo za Čubure
Dadoše im lopate i krampe
Aj sami sebi da kopaju rake

U Zagrebu na Jelačića placu
Aj srpska deca i ciganska plaču
Deca plaču a majke kukaju
Leba ištu ustaše ne daju

Aj, leba ištu ustaše ne daju
</poem>
| style="margin-left:2em" |
===Lyrics (English):===
<poem lang="en">
[TBA]
</poem>
|}
[[Category:Songs]]